RE: Hybrid Vigor
Hi Gus
I am fairly new to the sport of pumpkin growing, but I have grown one AG so far. I lost the parentage before I knew parentage was important... I know, idiot rookie maneuver. I do remember that the parents were both Pumpkins (orange) and both over 800 lbs. However, the plant I grew produced a squash greener than a pickle. I selfed it, so I now have some isolated genes that might be ready to cross with another green squash. I am looking for something super green, that might add size to my seed. For the record, my squash was not big... 176.5 lbs. But I think that was due to my rookie care.
was your 507 super green? If so, could I trade some seeds with you, please?
Toby
"Smithhisler, Paul" <Paul.Smithhisler@dnr.state.oh.us> wrote:
Might I offer my 507 squash as a seed parent for this experiment? It has
the same genetics (895.5 Hester by self), but over 900 seeds. This seems to
be an anomaly with the 895 genetics as there have been many fruit (including
my squash from last year, 11 seeds) that have very few seeds in them. If
anyone is interested, let me know.
-Gus Smithhisler
4281 Cleveland Avenue
Columbus, Ohio 43224
-----Original Message-----
From: clarion [c*@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 1:16 PM
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Subject: Re: Hybrid Vigor
Toby;
Your defiantly have the correct idea in mind, basically. The problem in
actually doing this kind of breeding lies in the vast number of seeds each
plant produces. Who is actually going to grow all 300 and something seeds,
take time to watch and chart the very best plants and pollinate every plant,
them do the same thing for several seasons? This would require a commercial
sized growing plot, excessive amounts of time, and a lot of documented
research.
The best thing growers can do, realistically, is do more self crosses on
future genetics. Sure, there are tons of crosses that work out well to throw
larger fruits than their parents, but selfing helps to isolate a genetic.
Anyone who has never actually thought self pollinated plants are good seeds
to
grow need to visit the AGGC and look at prodigy of self pollinated plants.
There also is a list of 2nd and 3rd generation self pollinated prodigy
fruits.
Seeing how well the self crosses fared should show the value of breeding
plants in that manner.
If there were a group of growers willing to participate in a "controlled
experiment", enough to do a true breeding experiment, then we all might have
some answers. Until such an experiment is done, growers only can breed
according to what their gut feeling tells them to do. That has worked up
until
now, so I guess "if it's not broke, don't fix it".
If there are any growers looking for a challenging side project in 2004,
might
I suggest getting the 70 or 80 people together to all grow Gadberry's 834
Squash seed [895 Hester X self]. There were only around 80 seed's I think,
and
since it probably has more stable genetics than today's orange counterparts,
that one would be a genetic best suited for such an experiment. After all,
it
just has 575 Dill and 674 Waterman for its entire genetic makeup.
Just an idea...
Marc
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I am so new to this... please tell me if I am getting this right.
After reading marc's post with the corn example, it would seem to me that if
you were really trying to isolate the gene that produces a particular trait,
you wouldn't want to cross it with ANYTHING for several generations. In
fact
you would do this:
1.Scoop the seeds our of your favorite pumpkin.
2.Plant ALL of them in one patch.
3.Self ALL of them. (SELF... not "open," not "sib")
4.select your favorite pumpkin from that patch.
5.start over at step one.
Do this until you have something consistently special. Then find somebody
else who has done the same thing, in the hope of generating additional
boosting of the desired trait. Cross pollinate your special plants with
theirs. Then begin again at step one.
Is this right?
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