Re: Selfing
Well said Drew....wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Papez <apapez@cogeco.ca>
To: <pumpkins@hort.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Selfing
> Hi list,
>
> The way they do it in corn is to take all the seeds from a cob and plant
it,
> then select the best cob(color, taste etc) from all those plants and then
> plant all the seeds from that cob and repeat the whole process. This takes
> years and we are only planting one or two seeds from each pumpkin. To
> isolate the desirable traits in a pumpkin you would have to plant all the
> seeds out of a particular pumpkin (cross) you are interested in and take
the
> most desirable(color, size weight etc) and plant all the seeds from that
one
> and repeat the whole process again. Maybe in ten years you would have
> isolated the desirable traits. We are not currently doing that and is
> impossible to isolate the genes from one or two seeds. Still a crap shoot
> the way I see it.
>
> drew
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cliff Warren" <cliffrwarren@hotmail.com>
> To: <pumpkins@hort.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Selfing
>
>
> > Mike and all:
> >
> > Great topic!
> >
> > I've been studying what has been said (written) by
> > Nic Welty, Joe Ailts, Mike Nepereny and others.
> > Here is what I understand about the F1/F2 hybrid
> > theory: (note that this is theory...)
> >
> > * To create an F2, cross your fruit with something from the mother line.
> > * F2's are created to enhance consistency.
> > * A "self" or "sib" pollination qualifies as an F2.
> > * Make an F1 by starting with an F2 and then crossing another line.
> Ideally,
> > one would hope to get some desirable characteristic from the new line.
> > (Thick walls,
> > nice color, etc.)
> > * The worlds best seeds have had elements of this theory in their
> > background, intentional or not.
> >
> > Note from history: which two seeds have had most
> > impact? I would suggest the 935 Lloyd and 567.5 Mombert.
> > Many hot seeds today, come from these lines, example:
> > 723, 940 Mombert 98, etc.
> >
> > Each of these was created by some degree of inbreeding
> > in the lines, to reduce the number of parents, keep the
> > gene pool more pure and thus create consistency. Then,
> > you introduce a new line. Perhaps this is where the
> > concept of "hybrid vigor" comes in... not just from
> > endlessly crossing, but by starting with two fairly
> > pure sources and then crossing.
> >
> > Well anyway, I'm no expert, but any theory is fun to
> > play with. I think it fits what we've seen.
> >
> > Take a look at the 846 Calai background. It takes
> > fairly pure 567.5 Mombert genetics and crosses that
> > with Lloyd, also fairly pure. That seed of course
> > speaks for itself.
> >
> > Once again, great topic. Lets use this list!
> >
> > Regards, Cliff
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Mike and Vickie Brock <vbrock@mcn.org>
> > >Reply-To: pumpkins@hort.net
> > >To: <pumpkins@hort.net>
> > >Subject: Selfing
> > >Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 13:56:37 -0800
> > >
> > >Here are some thoughts that I posted on BP.com and thought it a good
> > >subject
> > >to get going on both lists. So what are we seeing these days? Whats
> > >working?
> > >
> > > Most of the hotties come from heterozygous(outbreed) parents. The
idea
> of
> > >selfing is to isolate a gene that gives you a desired trait. It works
> well
> > >when you have a specific trait in mind like flavor or color. By selfing
> you
> > >can increase the probability of seeing the trait you want. But you can
> also
> > >drop traits such as vigor and disease resistance invisible traits. Of
> > >course
> > >the idea we want with selfing is to increase the predictability of
> > >monsters.
> > >I think that we are always going to be stuck with a small amount of
seed
> in
> > >a batch that demonstrate huge and heavy and the rest somewhere in
> between.
> > >Why because there are many genes that contribute to that outcome and
the
> > >trait were looking for is so heavily influenced by the environmental
> > >factors. If a gene is like a coin and the law of probability says you
can
> > >hit heads 50% of the time ...imagine the probability of lining up 5
coins
> > >and hitting heads. So I don't see how selfing is going to work if you
> don't
> > >plant out the entire stock and pick the best....and do it again and
again
> > >what exactly are we trying to isolate large root system, triple tap
roots
> > >at
> > >each junction...we have to be specific and all the seeds would have to
be
> > >treated equally........but the jury is still out...not enough data...to
> > >know...MB
> > >
> > >Will the odds ever improve?
> > >
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