Re: Hybridized Plants.--Includings AG's

In a message dated 7/31/99 12:28:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
SteveS012@aol.com writes:

 
 In a message dated 7/30/99 4:55:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
 Innealtoir@aol.com wrote::
  > On a slightly different tangent, we have bred certain vegetables and 
grains 
  >  to enhance commercial properties.  We would like to have tomatoes that 
   > ripen 
 >  >  all at once on a plant instead of over a period of 2 months,  By 
   > hybridizing 
  >  to enhance commercial properties like bigger fruit or higher yields, we 
 are 
 >  winding up with strains that are more susceptible to problems than thier 
 >  ancestors. That is one reason why there has been an effort retain some 
 seeds 
 > 
 >  of the original plants. Some of the new species do not have the vigor of 
 >  their predecssors.
 >  We may be doing the same with AGs.  Selection for size and weight may 
 > produce 
 >  plants more temperamental and less resistant  to the various problems we 
 > seem 
 >  to encounter.
 >  In a sense, we are reversing the process of natural selection as far as 
 AGs 
 >  are concerned.  No real problem here since AGs are raised more for fun 
 than 
 >  food.
 >  I, at least, do not propose to eat any part of any that I might grow. 
 After 
 >  all, 
 >  don't most of us  feel our pumpkins are akin to family?. (:>)
 >  
 >   INNEALTOIR
 
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STEVE's REPLY
 Well, hybridizing is totally different from genetic manipulation! 
Hybridizing 
 is still a form of enhanced natural selection. But in F1 hybrids and extreme 
 crossing, it does cause problems, since it reduces the variability of each 
 plant. So if one disease hit that struck one F1, the chances that all of 
them 
 will be wiped out is greater than if there was some more genetic diversity 
 with each plant. So in nature, F1 hybrids would have a hard time surviving 
 and reproducing since we crossed out most of the variability which they 
would 
 need to survive as a species. Now in controlled gardening, F1 hybrids (or 
 partial hybrids) have an enhanced vigor and the best of all of the qualities 
 that you want, for THAT generation anyway. So this certainly is a good 
thing. 
 AG's don't need to be equipped to survive "in the wild"! We DO need to save 
 all of the seed stock though, since those can't be replaced once they are 
 gone.<snip>
<." As for  reducing vigor in AG's. Not really. We are basically breeding for 
size. Now  if a pumpkins gets to be 700 or more pounds, I would say that 
plants probably 
 have a good deal of vigor and resistance to diseases, etc. to get to be that 
 size. So in effect we are also breeding for vigor and resistance. Of course 
 since EVERYONE uses pesticides, chemical fertilizers, fungicides, we are 
also 
 breeding them to thrive on these things, and if someone decided not to use 
 all of this, they might not make it as good."> End of Steve's msg.
 
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INNEALTOIR again,
 We are raising them for weight!  At least that's what I thought..  They 
appear to be relatively helpless without our constant care.  I think we would 
be happier if we did not have to nurse them all of the time. But that's what 
makes records!
Mine are doing as well as I expected for a beginner.  No winners but they are 
big enough for a second look..  And, there is still August.  From your msgs, 
I gather you have been through this AG raising before..  What's your current 
personal 
best record?. I started too late in the game to ever be a contender without  
planting my whole yard.
But, I can see the tremendous difference soil conditions and feeding can 
make.  I have the same flowers planted in some imported topsoil and they are 
MANY time larger and more attractive than those plants I put in the soil as I 
found it.
.......I read today where GERBER is not going to use genetically engineered 
corn in their baby products. 
My pumpkins seem to have stopped reproduction and are in the growth stages..
Biggest is over 130 lbs.I measure them weekly.   I'll know tomorrow if they 
have started to slow down.. What I can see is a large creamy colored pumpkin 
with a hint of yellow.  It seems to be growing fast!
Regards,
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