Re: lineage/genetics/characteristics

Tim,
     you said that the plant (lets say the mombert) poduces female
flowers with either m or o, is it possible that you could have a plant
that has both m and o in either its male or female flowers?, meaning
that one of the ova is an m, and another one is an o, in the same
flower? (male or female)

scott




Hi everyone,  I realize that I'm jumping in late, but I just logged on.
I've been busy putting my patch to bed.  The idea that all the seeds
from a
given pumpkin are genetically identical is incorrest except for lines
that
have been specifically inbred to be homozygous.  Here is an illustration
showing how 1 gene could sort from the mombert-zehr cross.

Lets call the gene pair (alleles) from the mombert m-o, and the gene
pair
from the zehr z-e.  Okay, the female gamete (ovum) brings m and o to the
fertilization, and the male gamete (pollen) brings z and e.  Let us
ignore
crossing over and mutations for the time being.

When the mombert flowers, it produces ovules (ova) within its ovary that
have either m OR o.  When the zehr flowers, it produces pollen grains
that
have either z OR e.  The proportion of each for both flowers is 50:50.

When they pollenate,  the resultant gene pair(s) in the seeds of the
ovary
(grows into the pumpkin) are:
          z    e
     m    mz   me
     o    oz   oe

This means that for this pair of genes, the resultant pumpkin would have
4
different types of seeds in it(mz, me, oz, oe) for just this one gene
pair.
Evidently, by luck of the draw, Scott, you planted two seed from the
same
pumpkin that had a different assortment of genes from the other( such as
an
mz and an oe), hence two entirely different looking fruit.

 Only if both parents were homozygous for this gene pair,  would all the
seed be identical.  Suppose that somehow both the mombert and the zehr
had
a pair of identical alleles(gene)  In this illustration, the mombert
would be
m-m  and the zehr would be z-z.  When they cross you get:

               z    z
          m    mz   mz
          m    mz   mz

And all the seeds are genetically identical.  In simple terms, you would
expect all the resultant plants, and their fruit to look similar to each
other, BUT they probably will not look like either of the parents.
I hope that this clarifies the answer to the initial question, and that
the
tabbing holds thruogh the e-mail routine.     Tim
At 08:54 AM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Rocky,
>     Yes you have it straight.  the mother of the 715 dill, and the 750
>mombert is the 567.5 mombert.  Both growers crossed the 804 zehr onto
>them.  so, they are identical, genetically.  so, where do we go from
>here!  :)
>
>scott
>
>
>
>So let me get this straight, the two plants have the exact same
parents?
>Grown by two different growers? Hmm.. Thatr is an interesting thing to
>ponder.. What were the parents of each the Dill 715 and the Mombert
750?
>
>Rocky
>
>Scott_Armstrong@LNOTES3.bankofny.com wrote:
>
>> Rocky,
>>      Actually, i left a very important part of the equation out.  i
>self
>> pollinated both of them, meaning i should get similiar results next
>> year.  That part i understand.  the part i don't understand is that
>they
>> have the same exact background, yet look totally different.
>>
>> scott
>>
>> c
>>
>> Scott,
>>     So let me get this straight. You grew both of those plants, each
>> being
>> the female and corresponding male to the other? The males
>characterstics
>> will not show up until the following year, as itis used to set the
>> plant,
>> and its genetics for years to come, but has little dto do with this
>> years
>> characterstics. This is along the same lines of the discussion that
>went
>> on
>> a few weeks ago, where some do not understand why the male is listed
>in
>> the
>> parantage, and it shoud be the grandparents of the female that should
>> actually be listed. Next year, I believe that if you grow one of each
>of
>> those seeds, you will see some mix of the two pumpkins, and less
>> dissimiarities than youdid this year.
>>
>> Rocky
>>
>> Scott_Armstrong@LNOTES3.bankofny.com wrote:
>>
>> > ---------------------- Forwarded by Scott Armstrong on 11/04/98
>10:42
>> AM
>> > ---------------------------
>> >
>> > Hi everybody.  Now that things have died down a little, i have a
>> > question: I grew 2 plants this year,, the dills 715, and the
mombert
>> > 750.  They have the exact same lineage.  the same mother and the
>same
>> > father, yet they look incredibly different.  my 750 plant grew a
>> really
>> > round smooth orange pumpkin, while the 715 grew an ugly mottled
>> > cantelouped peach colored, deep ribbed pumpkin.  i know this is
>going
>> to
>> > sound idioitic, but why such dissimilarities?  i mean, my brother
>and
>> > myself don't look like twins, but you can definatly tell we're
>> related.
>> > But these 2 looked NOTHING alike.
>> >
>> > Scott
>> >
>> >
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