My Mosaic Virus Replies (combined)

We have to cut this thread down a bit. I am doing my part by combining my 
replies into this one post, it  would help if everyone kind of only brought 
up stuff relevent to the topic.....O.K., here goes:

COMPUTRESE@aol.com writes:
> Roger:  
>  Steve's plants were infected with mosaic very early, before the bloom 
cycle. 
 >  Because of this, I feel certain that his seeds are also infected. With so 
>  many fine seeds available, there is no need to take chances that might 
cause 
 >  another grower anguish and disappointment.

Correction: all of my plants were infected AFTER fruit set except two of them.
Also, I never intended to send out any seeds from infected plants to anyone 
without a lot of knowledge about viruses. The first step is to send them to 
get TESTED by someone (an expert) willing to experiment with growing them in 
a controlled setting. This would be done over the winter. You say you feel 
certain about the seeds being infected. Other experts I have talked to, and 
going by posts that Harold has made, are not so certain. That isn't very 
unanimous, and not enough to convince me that my seeds are 100% worthless. 
You may be right, and they may be, but no one is sure.

Barb continues:  
>  
>  You are wrong about many things, and yes, also about mosaic viruses. It is 
>  obvious that you are a careless grower with no sense of responsibility. 

How is someone careless who has taken DRASTIC and expensive measures to STOP 
the spread of the virus. I consulted several experts months ago and followed 
their advice. That sounds like something a responsible grower would do. You 
do not know what all I have went through, and how many experts I have 
consulted about this. So I don't think calling me "carelesss" is appropriate 
and it adds nothing informative to this thread.

>  You are in denial, nothing anyone can say will change your thoughts or 
>  actions. Ignorance is bliss; you must be very happy indeed.

(Unnecessary sarcasm again, but I'll ignore it).... Anyway if I did not want 
my thoughts changed, I would not be HERE. If I was closed minded why would I 
be consulting all these poeple and posting my questions and viewpoints to the 
list? I was trying to get everyone's ideas on virus issues. I know yours is 
"kill it all, nothing else can be done". I inderstand that an respect it as a 
view form someone who (I am told) has a lot of knowledge about this subject. 
But there are other views too from other people, O.K.? I do take yours 
seriously, but I also take Harold's and other's seriously too. Everything 
everyone has said HAVE changed my thoughts about it, I WAS (and still am) 
ignorant on a lot of the details of virus infections. That is why I am here. 
to learn more.

>  I have nothing more to say to you about viruses. You have the facts and 
the 
>  ball is in your court. Do as you wish. Your actions will mirror your 
>  integrity.
>  

I do have the facts, from you and several others. You DO realize though that 
not all of the facts agree with yours. (See the quotes I posted ina previous 
post from Joe Mills and Harold Eddleman to back this up). Therefore contrary 
to your opinion, there seems to be a lot of room for debate here.

>  And, no this was never a debate. Facts are facts, you choose to ignore 
them 
>  or heed them. Which will you do, Steve? (need I ask?) I think we all know.
>  
>  Barb

There are no "hard facts" in science. What I will do is listen to all of what 
everyone has to say. The same thing I have done. I don't see a unanimous 
verdict that "all virus infected plants must be pulled and burned 
immediately". And that there is  "no other way" it can be 
contained/controlled. Harold Eddleman has said in a post to YOU back in April 
that he have no problem growing in a plot which had virus infected plants the 
year before, because of the non-persistant nature of the virus in the vector, 
unless it was a nematode, which is said not to carry CMV. He said you needed 
to ONLY pull the plants if you felt that the plant would be no good with the 
virus. Am I wrong here? Did I misinterpret something, or is Harold Eddleman 
wrong too? 

thepumpkinmaster@hotmail.com writes:

>  I seriously doubt he created a resistant strain.  Usually resistance is 
>  engineered by biologists and is done by infecting a plant with a virus 
that 
>  tells other viruses not to invade the plant.  I don't think Steve has done 
>  that and I don't think his plant has evolved quite that fast.  And I sure 
as 
> 
>  heck don't want to try his seed out to see if it is resistant and I don't 
>  want anyone near me doing it either since that may spread the virus to my 
>  patch which we have seen Steve doens't care about.
>  

Where do you get that I don't care? Because I don't follow one person's 
advice to pull my plants? I asked several experts earlier this summer and the 
concensus was that I didn't need to pull them. And I took the other advice 
about people worrying about the spread by concealing and keeping everything 
covered with insectidide, f.r.c., etc.
I was told this should be as effective as pulling thre plants, if not moreso. 
AND the plants would still be alive. So, I thought, I covered all of the 
bases this way. And according to everyone but a few here, I have.
As far as me "creating" a resistent strain. I certinaly have not created 
anything. A strain that was growing in my patch was totally resistant to the 
virus, naturally, (as Roger explained). Of course I cannot say this 
scientifically since I didn't try to innoculate it, but it was the only plant 
which did not get hit, and was growing in the same hill as another which did. 
There was NO sign of virus at all in it.

> Steve.  The Doctor who discovered the cure for most, but not all ulcers 
>  was brilliant.  He also went to school for many years to be a doctor and 
did 
> 
>  extensive research before he started his debates.  

Yes, and the rest of the medical community STILL thought he was nuts. I am 
not coming up with any theories on CMV or anything myself, I am just using 
what experts have told me, and they do not all agree with one view.

>Barb has a lot of experience with growing AG's and is 
>  in constant contact with other top growers in the World.  She has much 
>  information on growing giant pumpkins as anyone.  Arguing with her is like 
>  arguing with your parents when they tell you what is best.  It is just 

I am debating with her using information that OTHER experts have said, not my 
own knowledge on it, since I admit I am no expert in this at all.

>  ridiculous  And Bob has been around a while too, being very nice when ppl 
>  make stupid comments, like we all do sometimes, but at a time it is 
>  necessary to realize you are being way to arrogant and wilfully dismissing 
>  the experience of other more qualified growers.

If Bob has a problem with me, why does he not talk about it maturely and we 
can discuss our differences, whatever they might be? He seems to simply post 
comments like "You are stupid" or "You are a moron". Now come on....this 
doesn;t serve any purpose in any way. To this day I am still trying to figure 
out specifically what Bob's problem is with me. I asked him privately. He 
again replied something like "You are a stupid moron". I asked him in depth a 
few months ago, again the full text of his email was "You are a stupid 
idiot". So what am I to do with responces like that? However the invitation 
is still there if some day he feels like clueing me on on what his problem is 
with me, specifically, so maybe we can discuss it.

-Steve

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