Re: Let's try this again (LONG TECHNICAL VERSION)

Can anybody out there tell me how to get off this mailing list?  I don't
raise pumpkins, so I'm not very interested in your e-mails. Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark K" <korney19@adelphia.net>
To: <pumpkins@hort.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:46 PM
Subject: RE: Let's try this again (LONG TECHNICAL VERSION)


> Here's some pH Log Base 10 info:
>
> Just for those out there who don't know what log base 10, log is
> exponential.
> In log base 10, Log 100 is 2, Log 100000 is 5. (10 to the 5th power) In
> other
> words it means that a pH of 2 is 10, times a pH of 1. A pH of 5 would be
100
> times a pH of 3. A pH of 7 is 10 times more than a pH of 6. So it seems to
> me
> that it would take a lot to lower a pH of an acre 1 full pH.
> Math lesson for the day.
>
> The above is an explanation from a member of my tomato group/list. Below
is
> a report about sodic soils, primarily out West, but should give some
insight
> (hopefully.) Because your soil pH is higher than optimal, it may pertain.
>
> Gypsum is calcium sulfate
> Lime is calcium carbonate..
>
>
> ALKALINE SOILS
> AND THE BUFFERING AFFECT OF CALCIUM CARBONATE
>
>
> Curtis E. Swift, Ph.D.
> Colorado State University
> Cooperative Extension
> Tri River Area Agent (Horticulture)
>
> Western Colorado Soils
> Reducing Soil pH
> Buffering Effect of Calcium Carbonate
>
> Western Colorado Soils
> The acidity or basicity of a soil is referred to as pH and is based
> on the concentration of the hydrogen ions in the soil solution. As
> the hydrogen ion concentration (H+) in the soil increases, the pH
> drops increasing the acidity of the soil. If the hydrogen ion
> concentration drops in relationship to the hydroxyl ion (OH-)
> concentration, the pH increases with the soil becoming more basic
> (or alkaline). Since pH is based on a logarithmic scale of 10, each
> unit change in pH (i.e. 7 to 6) is a 10 fold change in hydrogen ion
> concentration.
>
> Soils in the valleys of Western Colorado typically have a pH of 7.5
> to 8.5 creating a basic/alkaline condition. Gardeners hoping to grow
> blueberries (pH preference of 4.5) would need to change the pH
> accordingly. When changing a soil from a pH of 7.5 to a pH of 4.5, a
> 1000 fold change in the hydrogen ion concentration would need to be
> made.
>
>
> Reducing soil pH
> Soil pH is usually reduced by the use of acidifying agents such as
> elemental sulfur or sulfuric acid. When sulfur is added to soil it
> combines with water and oxygen through bacterial activity and
> changes to sulfuric acid. This reaction takes place slowly over 6
> to 8 weeks based on soil moisture and temperature conditions. It
> should be noted that since this process is accomplished through
> bacterial activity, when soil is pasteurized to eliminate pathogens
> as is often done with houseplant potting soil, this acidifying
> process is unlikely to occur as the necessary bacteria are killed.
> Sulfuric acid is much quicker acting but should be used with caution
> as previously mentioned.
>
>
> The Buffering Effect of Calcium Carbonate
> The soils of Western Colorado are highly buffered with free lime
> (calcium carbonate - CaCO3). Any sulfuric acid coming into contact
> with calcium carbonate will react producing water (H2O), carbon
> dioxide (CO2) and calcium sulfate (CaSO4). No increase in hydrogen
> ion concentration occurs in this reaction, consequently no change in
> soil pH can occur. Instead, an increase in the salt level takes
> place due to the resulting increase in concentration of the salt
> gypsum (calcium sulfate - CaSO4).
>
> If the free lime in Western Colorado soils could be neutralized, any
> additional applications of sulfur or sulfuric acid would bring about
> a pH change. Six tons of sulfur (or 20 tons of sulfuric acid) is
> required per acre to neutralize each percentage of calcium
> carbonate. Many western Colorado soils contain 5 percent or more of
> calcium carbonate, thus 30 tons of sulfur or 100 tons of sulfuric
> acid would need to be applied. With up to four thousand feet of
> calcium-based Mancos shale under these valley soils and with the
> irrigation water containing calcium carbonate, the possibility of
> reducing pH in gardens and lawns is highly unlikely. Gardeners
> wishing for an instant remedy for this problem can rest assured that
> no such cure currently exists.
>
> Greenhouse operators and homeowners working with potted plants can
> effectively adjust pH as they are working with a finite amount of
> soil. In those instances where a peatmoss based potting soil is
> used, it may be necessary to raise the pH due to the acidifying
> affect of the peat moss. Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) is typically used
> to accomplish this task. When the pH of a potting soil needs to be
> lowered as when growing citrus, azaleas or Easter lillies, the use
> of sulfuric acid or sulfur may be needed.
>
> Sulfur and gypsum (calicum sulfate) continue to be sold in Western
> Colorado as remedies to correct the soil problems in gardens and
> lawns due to a lack of understanding of the soil chemistry in the
> area. Farmers and gardeners alike should avoid the use of gypsum
> unless a soil test indicates a high sodium concentration and a low
> lime content. Such a soil is know as a sodic or alkali soil. Western
> Colorado soils are alkaline (pH above 7) and the two terms (alkali
> and alkaline) are sometimes confused. Western Colorado has very few
> true sodic soils and the use of gypsum should be avoided unless
> indicated by a soil test.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Right now, let me say that I'm in no way associated with the organization
> below; I use a lot of drip irrigation so we do share some common methods,
> though they use a flood principle instead, of soluble fertilizers. I do
like
> some of their ideas though. While the recommendations are for typical
> veggies & no mention of AG's, theory & methods make sense.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> A follow-up was posted by Jim Kennard, from foodforeveryone.org. They
teach
> how to grow vegetables in raised soil or raised beds, closely spaced, that
> put out bountiful harvests. Their typical beds for tomatoes are 18" wide x
> 30ft long and plants are as close as 9" apart (tomatoes.) I'm just
briefing
> you all so you get an idea of this "Mittleider method" so you understand
> what's being referred to when he talks about Pre-Plant Mix, Weekly Feed,
> etc. In short, they usually add lime to the bed, then the "Pre-Plant Mix",
> then feed the beds once a week with the "Weekly Feed."
>
> When questioned about the Pre-Plant Mix:
>
> There is no ammonium nitrate in Pre-Plant Mix.
>
> It is made up of 5# lime or gypsum, 4 ounces Epsom Salt, and one
> ounce 20 Mule Team Borax. That mix is applied one time per crop at
> the rate of 2# for an 18"-wide soil-bed 30' long. That amounts to
> about 2 level tablespoons for each tomato plant - mixed into the soil
> before planting - to last the entire growing season.
>
> To make 26 pounds of Weekly-Feed Fertilizer, mix together the following:
>
> Calcium NitrateCaNO3 10 pounds
> Ammonium NitrateAmNO3 (34-0-0) 3 pounds 8 ounces
> PhosphorusP (0-45-0) 3 pounds 12 ounces
> Magnesium SulfateMgSO4 (Epsom Salt) 2 pounds 12 ounces
> PotassiumK (0-0-60) 4 pounds 12 ounces
> BoronB (Borax) 3 ounces
> ManganeseMnSO4 2 ounces
> ZincZnSO4 3 ounces
> Iron(Fe) Chelate #330 = ounce
> Copper SulfateCuSO4 < ounce
> MolybdenumMo < ounce
> GypsumCaSO4 1 pound
>
> Jim Kennard
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Then his response to the Colorado Report:
>
> May I share with you the 4 years' growing experience of Jacob
> Mittleider in the 4-Corners area of SO. Utah, Co., Az, and NM. He
> found soil conditions basically as described by Dr. Swift.
>
> To begin he used gypsum in his Pre-Plant Mix and ammonium sulfate for
> his Weekly Feed nitrogen source, along with the same level of micro-
> nutrients he'd used everywhere else.
>
> He found his plants were consistently showing deficiency symptoms of
> the micro-nutrients or trace elements, and so he had to add
> corrective treatments for them. After correcting for micro-nutrient
> deficiencies, Dr. Mittleider grew great gardens in several locations
> for all four years he was there. We have substantial video footage
> documenting his experiences.
>
> He instructed me today that if anyone is growing in that environment
> he would recommend using gypsum for the Pre-Plant, and ammonium
> sulfate, plus double the normal micro-nutrient amounts in the Weekly
> Feed.
>
>
> Jim Kennard
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> He also wrote:
>
> Dr. Mittleider says to supply calcium while taking care of the soil
> pH is best and that it's simple, easy to do, and inexpensive. And
> for the folks in dozens of countries around the world who do it - it
> works - with no smells, worries, problems, hassles, or soil tests.
>
> If you receive more than 20" of annual rainfall apply lime, either
> agricultural or dolomite, to your garden once before planting each
> crop. For the heaviest clay soil use 1800# per acre, and for
> extremely sandy soil use 800# per acre. An acre is 43,560 square
> feet, so just do the math for your own garden size. For example, a 30
> X 50' garden is 1/29th of an acre, so in clay soil you'd apply 62# of
> lime, and in sandy soil you'd apply 27.5#.
>
> Those amounts assume you are broadcasting the lime on your entire
> garden plot. If, however, you do as Jacob recommends and work only
> in the confines of the Soil-Bed in which you will actually plant, you
> will use substantially less. Again using the 30 X 50' garden as an
> example, Janet and Mary would have 10 18"-wide beds in that space.
> In a high-rainfall area with extremely heavy clay soil, they would
> use 3# lime per bed - or 30# in the 30 X 50' garden - less than 1/2
> the amount they would need if they were covering the entire garden.
> In sandy soil they would use 2# per bed.
>
> If you receive less than 20" of annual rainfall you would use
> gypsum. In extreme alkaline conditions, additional sulfur is used.
> Both lime and gypsum are to be mixed with the soil, rather than
> applied just to the surface.
>
> Jim Kennard
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pumpkins@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf
Of
> Dale Fisher
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 12:59 PM
> To: pumpkins@hort.net
> Subject: Let's try this again
>
>
> SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!!!
>
> Ok, I know it is weigh-off time, but since I just got soil test results
back
> I am interested in planning for next season.  I posted my results a few
days
> ago, and not even 1 response!
>
> I am considering adding gypsum to my patch to increase calcium content. I
> have a 10,000sq foot patch, at what rate would I apply it based on the
> following test results???
>
>
>
> OM (%): 5.8
>
> NO3-N (ppm):  255
>
> P1 (Weak Bray):  72
>
> NaHCO3-P (Olsen):  145
>
> K (ppm):  2171
>
> Mg (ppm):  526
>
> Ca(ppm): 1906
>
> Na (ppm): 69
>
> SOILPh: 7.3
>
> CEC (meq/100g): 19.7
>
> %K: 28.2
>
> %Mg: 22.0
>
> %Ca: 48.3
>
> %Na: 1.5
>
> Ca : Mg ratio: 2.2
>
> SO4 (ppm): 98
>
> Zn (ppm): 5.5
>
> Mn (ppm): 19
>
> Fe (ppm): 55
>
> Cu (ppm): 2.1
>
> Boron (ppm): 1.1
>
> Soluble Salts (mmhos/cm): 5.3
>
> I am also adding 50+ yards of manure and composted hay as well as a cover
> crop this winter.
>
>
>
> Thanks for any suggestions!
>
>
>
> God Bless,
>
>
>
> Dale E Fisher
>
> daleefisher@starband.net
>
> "The Harder We Work, The Luckier We Get!"
>
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