RE: Let's try this again (LONG TECHNICAL VERSION)
- Subject: RE: Let's try this again (LONG TECHNICAL VERSION)
- From: "Dale Fisher" d*@starband.net
- Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:39:25 -0700
- List-archive: <http://www.hort.net/lists/pumpkins/> (Web Archive)
Mark,
You sure have given a lot to think about! Thanks!
God Bless,
Dale E Fisher
daleefisher@starband.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pumpkins@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf
Of Mark K
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:47 PM
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Subject: RE: Let's try this again (LONG TECHNICAL VERSION)
Here's some pH Log Base 10 info:
Just for those out there who don't know what log base 10, log is
exponential.
In log base 10, Log 100 is 2, Log 100000 is 5. (10 to the 5th power) In
other
words it means that a pH of 2 is 10, times a pH of 1. A pH of 5 would be
100
times a pH of 3. A pH of 7 is 10 times more than a pH of 6. So it seems
to
me
that it would take a lot to lower a pH of an acre 1 full pH.
Math lesson for the day.
The above is an explanation from a member of my tomato group/list. Below
is
a report about sodic soils, primarily out West, but should give some
insight
(hopefully.) Because your soil pH is higher than optimal, it may
pertain.
Gypsum is calcium sulfate
Lime is calcium carbonate..
ALKALINE SOILS
AND THE BUFFERING AFFECT OF CALCIUM CARBONATE
Curtis E. Swift, Ph.D.
Colorado State University
Cooperative Extension
Tri River Area Agent (Horticulture)
Western Colorado Soils
Reducing Soil pH
Buffering Effect of Calcium Carbonate
Western Colorado Soils
The acidity or basicity of a soil is referred to as pH and is based
on the concentration of the hydrogen ions in the soil solution. As
the hydrogen ion concentration (H+) in the soil increases, the pH
drops increasing the acidity of the soil. If the hydrogen ion
concentration drops in relationship to the hydroxyl ion (OH-)
concentration, the pH increases with the soil becoming more basic
(or alkaline). Since pH is based on a logarithmic scale of 10, each
unit change in pH (i.e. 7 to 6) is a 10 fold change in hydrogen ion
concentration.
Soils in the valleys of Western Colorado typically have a pH of 7.5
to 8.5 creating a basic/alkaline condition. Gardeners hoping to grow
blueberries (pH preference of 4.5) would need to change the pH
accordingly. When changing a soil from a pH of 7.5 to a pH of 4.5, a
1000 fold change in the hydrogen ion concentration would need to be
made.
Reducing soil pH
Soil pH is usually reduced by the use of acidifying agents such as
elemental sulfur or sulfuric acid. When sulfur is added to soil it
combines with water and oxygen through bacterial activity and
changes to sulfuric acid. This reaction takes place slowly over 6
to 8 weeks based on soil moisture and temperature conditions. It
should be noted that since this process is accomplished through
bacterial activity, when soil is pasteurized to eliminate pathogens
as is often done with houseplant potting soil, this acidifying
process is unlikely to occur as the necessary bacteria are killed.
Sulfuric acid is much quicker acting but should be used with caution
as previously mentioned.
The Buffering Effect of Calcium Carbonate
The soils of Western Colorado are highly buffered with free lime
(calcium carbonate - CaCO3). Any sulfuric acid coming into contact
with calcium carbonate will react producing water (H2O), carbon
dioxide (CO2) and calcium sulfate (CaSO4). No increase in hydrogen
ion concentration occurs in this reaction, consequently no change in
soil pH can occur. Instead, an increase in the salt level takes
place due to the resulting increase in concentration of the salt
gypsum (calcium sulfate - CaSO4).
If the free lime in Western Colorado soils could be neutralized, any
additional applications of sulfur or sulfuric acid would bring about
a pH change. Six tons of sulfur (or 20 tons of sulfuric acid) is
required per acre to neutralize each percentage of calcium
carbonate. Many western Colorado soils contain 5 percent or more of
calcium carbonate, thus 30 tons of sulfur or 100 tons of sulfuric
acid would need to be applied. With up to four thousand feet of
calcium-based Mancos shale under these valley soils and with the
irrigation water containing calcium carbonate, the possibility of
reducing pH in gardens and lawns is highly unlikely. Gardeners
wishing for an instant remedy for this problem can rest assured that
no such cure currently exists.
Greenhouse operators and homeowners working with potted plants can
effectively adjust pH as they are working with a finite amount of
soil. In those instances where a peatmoss based potting soil is
used, it may be necessary to raise the pH due to the acidifying
affect of the peat moss. Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) is typically used
to accomplish this task. When the pH of a potting soil needs to be
lowered as when growing citrus, azaleas or Easter lillies, the use
of sulfuric acid or sulfur may be needed.
Sulfur and gypsum (calicum sulfate) continue to be sold in Western
Colorado as remedies to correct the soil problems in gardens and
lawns due to a lack of understanding of the soil chemistry in the
area. Farmers and gardeners alike should avoid the use of gypsum
unless a soil test indicates a high sodium concentration and a low
lime content. Such a soil is know as a sodic or alkali soil. Western
Colorado soils are alkaline (pH above 7) and the two terms (alkali
and alkaline) are sometimes confused. Western Colorado has very few
true sodic soils and the use of gypsum should be avoided unless
indicated by a soil test.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Right now, let me say that I'm in no way associated with the
organization
below; I use a lot of drip irrigation so we do share some common
methods,
though they use a flood principle instead, of soluble fertilizers. I do
like
some of their ideas though. While the recommendations are for typical
veggies & no mention of AG's, theory & methods make sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A follow-up was posted by Jim Kennard, from foodforeveryone.org. They
teach
how to grow vegetables in raised soil or raised beds, closely spaced,
that
put out bountiful harvests. Their typical beds for tomatoes are 18" wide
x
30ft long and plants are as close as 9" apart (tomatoes.) I'm just
briefing
you all so you get an idea of this "Mittleider method" so you understand
what's being referred to when he talks about Pre-Plant Mix, Weekly Feed,
etc. In short, they usually add lime to the bed, then the "Pre-Plant
Mix",
then feed the beds once a week with the "Weekly Feed."
When questioned about the Pre-Plant Mix:
There is no ammonium nitrate in Pre-Plant Mix.
It is made up of 5# lime or gypsum, 4 ounces Epsom Salt, and one
ounce 20 Mule Team Borax. That mix is applied one time per crop at
the rate of 2# for an 18"-wide soil-bed 30' long. That amounts to
about 2 level tablespoons for each tomato plant - mixed into the soil
before planting - to last the entire growing season.
To make 26 pounds of Weekly-Feed Fertilizer, mix together the following:
Calcium NitrateCaNO3 10 pounds
Ammonium NitrateAmNO3 (34-0-0) 3 pounds 8 ounces
PhosphorusP (0-45-0) 3 pounds 12 ounces
Magnesium SulfateMgSO4 (Epsom Salt) 2 pounds 12 ounces
PotassiumK (0-0-60) 4 pounds 12 ounces
BoronB (Borax) 3 ounces
ManganeseMnSO4 2 ounces
ZincZnSO4 3 ounces
Iron(Fe) Chelate #330 = ounce
Copper SulfateCuSO4 < ounce
MolybdenumMo < ounce
GypsumCaSO4 1 pound
Jim Kennard
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then his response to the Colorado Report:
May I share with you the 4 years' growing experience of Jacob
Mittleider in the 4-Corners area of SO. Utah, Co., Az, and NM. He
found soil conditions basically as described by Dr. Swift.
To begin he used gypsum in his Pre-Plant Mix and ammonium sulfate for
his Weekly Feed nitrogen source, along with the same level of micro-
nutrients he'd used everywhere else.
He found his plants were consistently showing deficiency symptoms of
the micro-nutrients or trace elements, and so he had to add
corrective treatments for them. After correcting for micro-nutrient
deficiencies, Dr. Mittleider grew great gardens in several locations
for all four years he was there. We have substantial video footage
documenting his experiences.
He instructed me today that if anyone is growing in that environment
he would recommend using gypsum for the Pre-Plant, and ammonium
sulfate, plus double the normal micro-nutrient amounts in the Weekly
Feed.
Jim Kennard
--------------------------------------------------------------------
He also wrote:
Dr. Mittleider says to supply calcium while taking care of the soil
pH is best and that it's simple, easy to do, and inexpensive. And
for the folks in dozens of countries around the world who do it - it
works - with no smells, worries, problems, hassles, or soil tests.
If you receive more than 20" of annual rainfall apply lime, either
agricultural or dolomite, to your garden once before planting each
crop. For the heaviest clay soil use 1800# per acre, and for
extremely sandy soil use 800# per acre. An acre is 43,560 square
feet, so just do the math for your own garden size. For example, a 30
X 50' garden is 1/29th of an acre, so in clay soil you'd apply 62# of
lime, and in sandy soil you'd apply 27.5#.
Those amounts assume you are broadcasting the lime on your entire
garden plot. If, however, you do as Jacob recommends and work only
in the confines of the Soil-Bed in which you will actually plant, you
will use substantially less. Again using the 30 X 50' garden as an
example, Janet and Mary would have 10 18"-wide beds in that space.
In a high-rainfall area with extremely heavy clay soil, they would
use 3# lime per bed - or 30# in the 30 X 50' garden - less than 1/2
the amount they would need if they were covering the entire garden.
In sandy soil they would use 2# per bed.
If you receive less than 20" of annual rainfall you would use
gypsum. In extreme alkaline conditions, additional sulfur is used.
Both lime and gypsum are to be mixed with the soil, rather than
applied just to the surface.
Jim Kennard
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pumpkins@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf
Of
Dale Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 12:59 PM
To: pumpkins@hort.net
Subject: Let's try this again
SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!!!
Ok, I know it is weigh-off time, but since I just got soil test results
back
I am interested in planning for next season. I posted my results a few
days
ago, and not even 1 response!
I am considering adding gypsum to my patch to increase calcium content.
I
have a 10,000sq foot patch, at what rate would I apply it based on the
following test results???
OM (%): 5.8
NO3-N (ppm): 255
P1 (Weak Bray): 72
NaHCO3-P (Olsen): 145
K (ppm): 2171
Mg (ppm): 526
Ca(ppm): 1906
Na (ppm): 69
SOILPh: 7.3
CEC (meq/100g): 19.7
%K: 28.2
%Mg: 22.0
%Ca: 48.3
%Na: 1.5
Ca : Mg ratio: 2.2
SO4 (ppm): 98
Zn (ppm): 5.5
Mn (ppm): 19
Fe (ppm): 55
Cu (ppm): 2.1
Boron (ppm): 1.1
Soluble Salts (mmhos/cm): 5.3
I am also adding 50+ yards of manure and composted hay as well as a
cover
crop this winter.
Thanks for any suggestions!
God Bless,
Dale E Fisher
daleefisher@starband.net
"The Harder We Work, The Luckier We Get!"
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