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Re: Chaos in Monstera names

  • Subject: Re: Chaos in Monstera names
  • From: brian lee <lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
  • Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:47:29 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Pete,

Aloha and mahalo once again for the excellent help.  

My Pavlovian responses are triggered by your offers of good food, drink, and company. Throw in a marvelous natural setting and longboats...all great temptations.

Thank you again.

Aloha,

Leland


--- On Mon, 6/30/08, Peter Boyce <botanist@malesiana.com> wrote:

> From: Peter Boyce <botanist@malesiana.com>
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> To: "Discussion of aroids" <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 9:06 PM
> Hi Leyland,
> 
> Rhaphidophora tetrasperma really is distinct in the
> straggling habit, the 
> single roots arising from each node and the very uniform
> leaves. 
> Rhaphidophora glauca is different in the climbing habit and
> in having the 
> backs of the leaves glaucous (white-waxy-powdery). 
> Rhaphidophora lucunensis 
> is distinct in having leaves with splits and holes while R.
> corneri has 
> leaves with so many holes as to appear like a lace napkin
> but no splits. All 
> are small species. Rhaphidophora pertusa has leaves a
> little like 
> R.luchunensis but is HUGE in all its parts. Spathes of R.
> luchunensis and 
> glauca are yellow; those of R. corneri creamy white and
> those of R. 
> tetrasperma white. Spathes of R. pertusa are pale orange.
> 
> Also in this group is R. nicolsonii, another giant, with
> perforated and 
> split leaves. Spathes are white.
> 
> I have collected all of these (and a few more) in the field
> and can tell 
> them apart quite easily.
> 
> You are perfectly correct to say that most plants in
> cultivation labelled as 
> R. pertusa are actually R. tetrasperma. In fact, I have
> very seldom seen 
> true R. pertusa cultivated and never seen it in European or
> US collections.
> 
> Very best
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "brian lee" <lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 3:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> 
> 
> > Dear Pete,
> >
> > Aloha and mahalo for posting these descriptions. It
> will be very helpful 
> > toward straightening out the questions surrounding the
> so-called dwarf 
> > Monstera varieties in cultivation.
> >
> > Now, are you familiar with any ex-situ collections
> that have vouchered 
> > living plants of both of these species to compare? 
> From the descriptions, 
> > it appears that the so-called Monstera pertusa are all
> Rhaphidophora 
> > tetrasperma...not Rhaphidophora pertusa...at least the
> ones I have seen. 
> > I am not familiar with the other Rhaphidophora you
> listed, so I cannot 
> > make a judgement as to the similarity, or not, of
> these species to the 
> > dwarf plants in question.  Can any of these be
> confused with Rhaphidophora 
> > tetrasperma in the sterile condition?
> >
> > Aloha,
> >
> > Leland
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 6/28/08, Peter Boyce
> <botanist@malesiana.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Peter Boyce <botanist@malesiana.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 8:22 PM
> >> Dear Leland,
> >>
> >> Rhaphidophora tetrasperma and R. pertusa are
> distinct
> >> species, although they are related. In the same
> group are
> >> R. nicolsonii, R. glauca, R. luchunensis and
> perhaps R.
> >> corneri.
> >>
> >> I posted a description for R. pertusa yesterday;
> here is
> >> the description for R. tetrasperma:
> >>
> >> Rhaphidophora tetrasperma Hook.f., Fl. Brit. India
> 6 (1893)
> >> 548; Ridl., Mat. Fl.Malay Penins. 3 (1907) 44--45;
> Engl.
> >> & K. Krause in Engl., Pflanzenr. 37 (IV.23B)
> (1908) 48;
> >> Ridl., Fl. Malay Penins. 5 (1925) 124 - Type:
> Malaysia,
> >> Perak,  Scortechini 169b (K, holo).
> >>
> >> Distribution: Peninsular Malaysia (Kelantan,
> Perak),
> >> southern Thailand
> >>
> >> Small to medium-sized, rather slender,
> semi-pachycaul,
> >> heterophyllous liane to 5 m; seedling stage a
> >> non-skototropic shingling juvenile shoot;
> pre-adult plants
> >> very rarely forming terrestrial colonies; adult
> shoot
> >> architecture comprised of elongated, weakly
> clinging,
> >> physiognomically monopodial, flexuous, moderately
> leafy,
> >> non-flowering stems and weakly adherent or, more
> commonly,
> >> free lateral flowering stems; stems smooth,
> without
> >> prophyll, cataphyll and petiolar sheath fibre,
> internodes
> >> to 14 x 1 cm, separated by prominent straight leaf
> scars;
> >> flagellate foraging stems not observed; clasping
> roots
> >> sparsely produced from nodes and internodes;
> feeding roots
> >> stout, produced singly or in pairs from most nodes
> of free
> >> shoots; leaves weakly spiral-distichous;
> cataphylls and
> >> prophylls membranous, soon drying and falling;
> petiole
> >> shallowly grooved, 10--34 x 0.2--0.4 cm, smooth,
> apical and
> >> basal genicula slightly prominent; petiolar sheath
> >> prominent, extending to base of apical geniculum,
> soon
> >> falling to leave a prominent, slightly corky scar;
> lamina
> >> sparsely to + entirely deeply pinnatipartite to
> nearly
> >> pinnatisect, occasionally with large rhombic
> perforations
> >> adjacent to mid-rib, 12--42 x 9.5--38 cm, broadly
> ovate to
> >> ovate-lanceolate, thinly coriaceous, base truncate
> or very
> >> weakly cordate, apex acute to acuminate,
> individual pinnae
> >> up to 6 cm wide; mid-rib prominently raised
> abaxially,
> >> slightly sunken adaxially; primary venation
> pinnate, raised
> >> abaxially, slightly impressed adaxially;
> interprimaries
> >> diverging from primaries, much less prominent,
> slightly
> >> raised abaxially, very slightly impressed
> adaxially;
> >> secondary venation weakly reticulate, very
> slightly raised;
> >> tertiary venation barely visible; inflorescence
> few
> >> together, subtended by two prominent cataphylls,
> these soon
> >> falling; peduncle terete, 2--2.5 x 0.3--0.4 cm;
> spathe
> >> canoe-shaped, 3--3.5 x 0.8--1.5 cm, stiffly
> fleshy,
> >> apparently falling swiftly, white with adherent
> black
> >> cataphyll remnants; spadix cylindrical, sessile,
> inserted
> >> slightly decurrently on peduncle, 3--3.5 x 0.75 -
> 1 cm,
> >> white; stylar region well developed, mostly
> >> rhombohexagonal, c. 2 x 2 mm, truncate, margins
> deflexed;
> >> stigma elliptic, longitudinally orientated, c. 1 x
> 0.2 mm;
> >> anthers exserted at anthesis; infructescence not
> observed.
> >>
> >> Habitat: Disturbed rather dry to moist or wet
> forest on
> >> sandstone and granite. 190--760 m altitude.
> >>
> >>
> >> Pete
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "brian lee"
> <lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> >> <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:45 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> >>
> >>
> >> > Dear Tom and the masses,
> >> >
> >> > Aloha.
> >> >
> >> > On an earlier post, I said that Monstera
> pertusa was a
> >> valid name...that was based on the Tropicos
> listing.  On the
> >> KEW monocot checklist, that name is considered
> Raphidophora
> >> pertusa.  Monstera and Rhapidophora are genera
> that I would
> >> like to study in greater detail,however, access to
> vouchered
> >> and correctly curated living collections are
> limited.
> >> >
> >> > Pete, are you familiar with Rhaphidophora
> pertusa? I
> >> mention this because there is the discussion that
> many of
> >> the so-called Monstera pertusa are really
> Rhaphidophora
> >> tetrasperma.  Now, I noticed that the diatribution
> of
> >> Rhaphidophora tetrasperma and Rhapidophora pertusa
> are very
> >> distinct...the former from peninsular Thailand and
> >> peninsular Malaysia, and R. pertusa from southern
> >> India,Bangladesh,and Sri Lanka.  Can you comment
> on this?
> >> Are they similar species...especially in the
> sterile state?
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Thank you all.
> >> >
> >> > Aloha,
> >> >
> >> > Leland
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- On Fri, 6/27/08, Tom Croat
> >> <Thomas.Croat@mobot.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> From: Tom Croat
> <Thomas.Croat@mobot.org>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera
> names
> >> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> >> <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> >> Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 10:52 AM
> >> >> Marek:
> >> >>
> >> >>             Monstera friedrichsthalii is
> a synonym
> >> of A.
> >> >> adansonii but
> >> >> M. pertusa is not even a Monstera as I
> recall but
> >> rather a
> >> >> Rhapidophora
> >> >> (Pete is this not correct?). M.
> karwinskyi is a
> >> synonym of
> >> >> M. acuminate,
> >> >> not the other way around.  M. obliqua has
> lots of
> >> synonyms.
> >> >>  Madison
> >> >> lists 7 including M. expilata Schott but
> I intend
> >> to
> >> >> resurrect the
> >> >> latter.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Tom
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >> From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> >> >> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]
> On Behalf
> >> Of Marek
> >> >> Argent
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:13 PM
> >> >> To: Discussion of aroids
> >> >> Subject: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera
> names
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Hello,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Can anyone authoritatively tell if:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> M. friedrichsthalii = M. adansonii = M.
> pertusa
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> M. acuminata = M. karwinskyi
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> M. obliqua has no synonyms
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Best
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> Marek_______________________________________________
> >> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> _______________________________________________
> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aroid-L mailing list
> > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> > 
> 
> 
> 
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