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Re: ubba dubba reticulata

  • Subject: Re: ubba dubba reticulata
  • From: brian lee <lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
  • Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:08:46 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Pete and all techies in virtual world,

Yes, I live in the lap of luxury and do have a landline on a rotary dial.  However, it is faster to use my tried and true system of smoke signals.  I usually keep a small fire bundle handy near the garage...but with the recent trade winds, my wife has been nervous about the dry tinder lying about the house. In the old days, we had sliced peach cans and strings, but the multiple threads for our long distance connections were hard to negotiate in the bedroom. Once we gathered up all of the string; we were first runner-up in the Guiness ball of string contest for the Pacific region.  Our problem with the pigeon system was that they never returned home...your cat may be the explanation.

Aloha,

Leland


--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Peter Boyce <botanist@malesiana.com> wrote:

> From: Peter Boyce <botanist@malesiana.com>
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] ubba dubba reticulata
> To: "Discussion of aroids" <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 8:19 PM
> Whoa Leland...you have a PHONE LINE.... LUXURY...we have two
> empty cocoa 
> tins joined by long a string....  before that we had a
> pigeon... but the cat 
> ate him....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "brian lee" <lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] ubba dubba reticulata
> 
> 
> > Dear Derek,
> >
> > Aloha.
> >
> > I am sorry...please understand that I am a high tech
> ignoramus and online 
> > neophyte.  I am willing to learn.  Also undertand that
> the system in my 
> > neighborhood is still on a rotary phone system.  I
> will change subjects as 
> > our tangential subject switching demands...but, please
> jump in if we get 
> > carried away.  I assumed I could not change the
> subject line in this 
> > forum...live and learn.
> >
> > Aloha,
> >
> > Leland
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, derek burch
> <dburch23@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> >> From: derek burch <dburch23@bellsouth.net>
> >> Subject: [Aroid-l] ubba dubba reticulata
> >> To: "'Discussion of aroids'"
> <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 1:57 AM
> >> Dear Pete and Leland and everyone.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> PLEASE don't just click 'Reply"
> without
> >> changing the subject line when the
> >> topic of your email has changed.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am interested in alocasias, I am interested in
> the
> >> alpha-taxonomist
> >> drought, but I should like to be able to open the
> emails
> >> that refer to a
> >> topic without having to take a lucky dip into what
> finally
> >> amounts to an
> >> email morass. At the moment it is a bit like my
> filing
> >> system in my office
> >> where everything goes into one file labeled
> "A" -
> >> that includes 'A letter',
> >> 'A reply' and so on. Very quick and easy.
> I do also
> >> have an "An" file where
> >> I put 'An invoice'
> >>
> >> , An unpaid account'.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> But I digress .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards, to all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Derek
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> >> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Peter Boyce
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:12 PM
> >> To: Discussion of aroids
> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear Leland,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, where I live unless there is a change in
> education
> >> policy to imbue
> >> those few (and it is FEW) students with some
> botanical
> >> aptitude, to gain
> >> knowledge of the basic building blocks of botany,
> notably
> >> comparative
> >> morphology ecology & geomorphology, the
> spectre of no
> >> wide-experience field
> >> botanists, already a fact in many parts of Asia,
> will
> >> become a region-wide
> >> problem. In fact the whole of  taxonomy, let alone
> >> systematics, is in danger
> >> of slipping off the curriculum in universities
> throughout
> >> the region such
> >> that only the minute hard-core (essentially
> botanically
> >> hard-wired) folks
> >> will make it through and continue. The problem
> then will be
> >> that there are
> >> increasingly fewer jobs that call for taxonomic
> expertise
> >> such that those
> >> few that wish to remain in the field usually end
> up earning
> >> a living doing
> >> something at the best only tangentially associated
> with
> >> their passion. Of
> >> course the irony is that there has never been  a
> greater
> >> need for taxonomic
> >> expertise in order to make the rational decisions
> required
> >> to protect the
> >> remaining tropical habitats.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Curiously, I am not anywhere near as doubtful or
> indeed
> >> pessimistic about
> >> the increasing use of molecular data and also
> don't
> >> altogether agree with
> >> the total genome argument. Regarding the function
> of
> >> various parts of the
> >> molecular code, in recent years there has been
> made
> >> enormous strides in
> >> understanding what various coding regions
> 'do' such
> >> that the link with this
> >> and evo-devo is now a well established area of
> scientific
> >> exploration. Of
> >> course some of these areas are ferociously
> expensive but
> >> with molecular
> >> extraction methodologies and analyses programmes
> >> increasingly simplified
> >> costs are dropping such that basic extraction and
> >> methodologies are well
> >> within the budget of even quite modest research
> >> establishments.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regarding the usefulness of molecular data,
> especially
> >> vis-a-vis the ability
> >> of the molecular practitioners to actual identify
> the
> >> organisms they are
> >> studying, yes, I agree, that still far too many
> molecular
> >> research outputs
> >> are the product of lab rats without any practical
> field
> >> training and worse
> >> are oftentimes undertaken without or with only
> minimal
> >> taxonomic cross
> >> fertilization. However, that situation is fast
> becoming
> >> history as more and
> >> more multi-author research outputs based on sound
> >> alpha-taxonomy, with the
> >> molecular toolbox being opened only once a decent
> >> 'traditional' taxonomy is
> >> established and is testable. This is much the
> approach we
> >> are using, with a
> >> multi-stranded project that is investigating
> alpha-tax. and
> >> then
> >> phylogentics and then using the phylogenies to
> investigate
> >> spatial
> >> evolution, etc. We have been very fotunate to find
> good
> >> students who are
> >> willing to spend the necessary field time as part
> of their
> >> molecular-based
> >> research and as a result have a much more complete
> >> biological reserach
> >> toolbox.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The main problem here
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>
> >> From: "brian lee" <
> >> <mailto:lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
> lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> To: "Discussion of aroids" <
> >> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:45 AM
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Dear Pete,
> >> >
> >> > Aloha.
> >> >
> >> > What a shame.  What will happen when there
> are no
> >> field botanists with the
> >> knowledge to recognize species in habitat?  I have
> taken
> >> young molecular
> >> taxonomists into the field and some of them really
> have no
> >> clue what they
> >> are looking at until you tell them.  At this rate,
> there
> >> will come a time
> >> when no field botanists will be able to lead them
> to their
> >> samples...which
> >> they send off to distant labs to analyze the
> relationships.
> >> >
> >> > The other problematic issue I see is that
> whole
> >> genomes are not analyzed,
> >> only sections that are not necessarily associated
> with
> >> known
> >> characteristics.  I see a great need for
> traditional
> >> botany...but the lure
> >> of molecular biology is hooking most of the young
> fish
> >> these days.  One day
> >> I see entire genomes of all plants being
> sequenced...which
> >> is a good thing
> >> in the long run. There will always be a great need
> for
> >> morphologists in the
> >> field, however...in my humble opinion...until all
> the
> >> plants are located on
> >> GPS and barcoded and linked to the great databases
> they
> >> envision.  Who will
> >> control this information?
> >> >
> >> > In the meantime,I hope the horticulturists
> out there
> >> report their
> >> observations.  Unfortunately, most of these plants
> are not
> >> associated with
> >> good locality data... It will serve as a survey of
> >> variation,however.
> >> >
> >> > Aloha,
> >> >
> >> > Leland
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Peter Boyce <
> >> <mailto:botanist@malesiana.com>
> >> botanist@malesiana.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> From: Peter Boyce <
> >> <mailto:botanist@malesiana.com>
> >> botanist@malesiana.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina
> reticulata
> >> >> To: "Discussion of aroids" <
> >> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> >> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 10:32 PM
> >> >> Hi Leland,
> >> >>
> >> >> I was more thinking along the lines that
> the
> >> numerous folks
> >> >> who grow
> >> >> Alocasia zebrina might pitch in with
> observations
> >> on the
> >> >> different
> >> >> menifestation that this species takes in
> >> cultivation.
> >> >>
> >> >> The Flora of the Philippines project is
> stll
> >> active but is
> >> >> suffering from
> >> >> the same problem besetting several
> similar
> >> projects in
> >> >> Asia, that of a
> >> >> dearth of botanists tackling
> alpha-taxonomy and
> >> the almost
> >> >> universal problem
> >> >> that so few students are coming into
> field-work
> >> based
> >> >> botany once they leave
> >> >> university such that as the few remaining
> active
> >> >> field-taxonomists/systematits become
> fewer still
> >> there are
> >> >> a
> >> >> disproportionately small number of young
> bloods
> >> entering
> >> >> the career.
> >> >>
> >> >> Pete
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "brian lee" <
> >> <mailto:lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
> lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
> >> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> >> >> <
> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:17 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina
> reticulata
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Dear Pete,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Aloha.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It is hard to comment on issues that
> some of
> >> us have
> >> >> no knowledge on.
> >> >> > That is not to say we do not have an
> >> obsessive desire
> >> >> for knowledge.  We
> >> >> > wait on bated breath for tidbits of
> treasure
> >> from you.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum
> used to
> >> participate
> >> >> in a program called,
> >> >> > the Philippine Flora Project that
> was to
> >> catalog as
> >> >> many of the in-situ
> >> >> > plants remaining in the
> archipelago...which
> >> was being
> >> >> destroyed at a pace
> >> >> > and scale that would see many
> habitats
> >> extirpated.  I
> >> >> do not recall the
> >> >> > percentage of the destruction, but
> it was a
> >> >> significant proportion.  My
> >> >> > point here is that if habitats are
> destroyed,
> >> it will
> >> >> be impossible to
> >> >> > reconstruct some of these
> interesting pearls
> >> of
> >> >> information we all desire.
> >> >> > I can ask Clyde Imada if Alocasia
> species
> >> were
> >> >> catalogued in this
> >> >> > program...hopefully your contact
> will respond
> >> with a
> >> >> wealth of new
> >> >> > information to enlighten the
> darkness.  I am
> >> >> optimistic that Melanie will
> >> >> > answer the call.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Aloha,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Leland
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Peter Boyce
> >> >> <
> <mailto:botanist@malesiana.com>
> >> botanist@malesiana.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> From: Peter Boyce <
> >> <mailto:botanist@malesiana.com>
> >> botanist@malesiana.com>
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
> zebrina
> >> reticulata
> >> >> >> To: "Discussion of
> aroids"
> >> >> <
> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> >> >> Cc: "Melanie P. Medecilo -
> >> hotmail"
> >> >> < <mailto:mmedecilo@hotmail.com>
> >> mmedecilo@hotmail.com>
> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008,
> 11:45 AM
> >> >> >> Hi Denis,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I am quite surprised that no one
> has
> >> picked up on
> >> >> the last
> >> >> >> comment in your
> >> >> >> posting regarding the status of
> A.
> >> zebrina in
> >> >> cultivation.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> As you know, Alistair Hay in his
> >> herbarium-based
> >> >> account of
> >> >> >> Philippines'
> >> >> >> Alocasia (Gardens' Bulletin
> Singapore
> >> 51: 1-41
> >> >> (1999))
> >> >> >> treated A. zebrina as
> >> >> >> a variable species and included
> under
> >> that name A.
> >> >> >> wenzelii. He made no
> >> >> >> mention of the name A. tigrina
> (or A.
> >> zebrina
> >> >> tigrina) as
> >> >> >> this name and any
> >> >> >> combination thereof has never
> been
> >> formally
> >> >> published and
> >> >> >> thus from a strict
> >> >> >> botanical standpoint dos not
> exist.
> >> Goerverts et
> >> >> al.
> >> >> >> include a further name
> >> >> >> as a provisional syn. (A.
> liervalii) but
> >> without
> >> >> further
> >> >> >> discussion.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Not withstanding the strict
> application
> >> of
> >> >> application of
> >> >> >> published names,
> >> >> >> it is clear to anyone who grows
> A.
> >> zebrina that
> >> >> there are
> >> >> >> several
> >> >> >> conspicuously different (but
> likewise
> >> clearly
> >> >> allied)
> >> >> >> entities in
> >> >> >> cultivation, among which the
> form with
> >> reticulated
> >> >> venation
> >> >> >> is particularly
> >> >> >> striking. What of course is
> needed is a
> >> >> comprehensive field
> >> >> >> study to try to
> >> >> >> untangle these cultivated clones
> and see
> >> where
> >> >> they may
> >> >> >> have originated. For
> >> >> >> that reason I have ccd this
> aroid-l
> >> posting to
> >> >> Melanie
> >> >> >> Medecilo in the
> >> >> >> Philippines; Melanie is
> currently working
> >> on
> >> >> >> Philippines' Alocasia and if
> >> >> >> anyone is able to shed some
> light on the
> >> status of
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> various clones of A.
> >> >> >> zebrina she can.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Very best
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Peter
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> >> From: "Denis" <
> >> <mailto:denis@skg.com> denis@skg.com>
> >> >> >> To: "'Discussion of
> >> aroids'"
> >> >> >> <
> >> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008
> 4:23 AM
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
> zebrina
> >> reticulata
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Alocasia zebrina
> >> 'reticulata' was
> >> >> subsequently
> >> >> >> tissue cultured by
> >> >> >> > Oglesby Plant Labs in the
> 1980's
> >> to
> >> >> satisfy the
> >> >> >> small collector's market
> >> >> >> > for this unusual plant.
> Only about
> >> 1,000 to
> >> >> 1,500
> >> >> >> plants were produced
> >> >> >> > at that time. You might
> could ask
> >> Plantsman
> >> >> Jim
> >> >> >> Georgusis who currently
> >> >> >> > is working at Oglesby
> Plants if he
> >> knows
> >> >> anymore about
> >> >> >> the origins of
> >> >> >> > this cultivar. I think he
> worked at
> >> Fantastic
> >> >> Gardens
> >> >> >> in the 1970's.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > The plant is currently
> being
> >> produced in
> >> >> Tissue
> >> >> >> Culture at Agristarts,
> >> >> >> > Inc. in Apopka Florida.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > The question is still open
> as to
> >> whether or
> >> >> not
> >> >> >> Alocasia zebrina is true
> >> >> >> > species described in the
> literature
> >> somewhere
> >> >> or just
> >> >> >> a sub variety of
> >> >> >> > Alocasia tigrina group.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Denis
> >> >> >> > Silver Krome Gardens, Inc.
> >> >> >> > Homestead Florida
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> > From:
> >> <mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com>
> >> aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >> >
> >> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On
> >> >> Behalf Of
> >> >> >> Harry Luther
> >> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 21,
> 2008 8:05
> >> PM
> >> >> >> > To: Discussion of aroids
> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l]
> Alocasia
> >> zebrina
> >> >> reticulata
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I believe that I first saw
> an
> >> Alocasia
> >> >> >> "reticulata" at
> Fantastic
> >> Gardens
> >> >> >> > in Miami in the summer of
> 1976 in
> >> their
> >> >> private, keep
> >> >> >> out stock house.
> >> >> >> > This was when the Mentelos
> family
> >> had the
> >> >> nursery. My
> >> >> >> memory may be off
> >> >> >> > a bit as its filled with
> bromeliad
> >> stuff.
> >> >> HEL
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> > From:
> >> <mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com>
> >> aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >> >
> >> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]On
> >> >> Behalf Of
> >> >> >> brian lee
> >> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 21,
> 2008 2:27
> >> PM
> >> >> >> > To: Discussion of aroids
> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l]
> Alocasia
> >> zebrina
> >> >> reticulata
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Dear Enid,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Aloha.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > About 1986, Roberto
> Burle-Marx,
> >> Betty Ho,
> >> >> Robert
> >> >> >> Hirano, and I went to
> >> >> >> > the Philippines.  Corazon
> Aquino
> >> just became
> >> >> >> President, and it was a
> >> >> >> > wild time.  Our host,
> Ronnie Lane
> >> was
> >> >> murdered a week
> >> >> >> before our trip
> >> >> >> > and our new host was Dr.
> Vic Santos.
> >> There is
> >> >> an
> >> >> >> Alocasia 'Vic Santos'
> >> >> >> > that we brought in for the
> first
> >> time.  Vic
> >> >> made sure
> >> >> >> that we got all
> >> >> >> > sorts of Philippine plants,
> >> including many
> >> >> Alocasia
> >> >> >> species...including
> >> >> >> > Alocasia zebrina and
> several forms.
> >> Soon
> >> >> after our
> >> >> >> trip, Vic was
> >> >> >> > murdered at his farm.  I do
> not know
> >> much
> >> >> about
> >> >> >> Alocasia, but Bob Hirano
> >> >> >> > does.  Bob's
> collections are
> >> maintained
> >> >> at Lyon
> >> >> >> Arboretum and they will
> >> >> >> > have records of all that
> was
> >> collected. Bob
> >> >> has
> >> >> >> retired and his eyes
> >> >> >> > were messed up in a botched
> >> operation. If
> >> >> this forum
> >> >> >> does not come up
> >> >> >> > with an answer for you, I
> can
> >> contact Ray
> >> >> Baker at the
> >> >> >> Arboretum and he
> >> >> >> > may have some information
> on their
> >> BG-base
> >> >> data
> >> >> >> system.  Another source
> >> >> >> > of information may be at
> the Bernice
> >> Pauahi
> >> >> Bishop
> >> >> >> Museum.  They were
> >> >> >> > involved in the Philippine
> Flora
> >> Project and
> >> >> I can
> >> >> >> contact Clyde Imada
> >> >> >> > to see if they have any
> records in
> >> >> conjunction with
> >> >> >> this program.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I look forward to seeing
> what this
> >> thread
> >> >> reveals.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Aloha,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Leland
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Enid
> >> >> < <mailto:enigo@bellsouth.net>
> >> enigo@bellsouth.net>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> From: Enid <
> >> <mailto:enigo@bellsouth.net>
> enigo@bellsouth.net>
> >> >> >> >> Subject: [Aroid-l]
> Alocasia
> >> zebrina
> >> >> reticulata
> >> >> >> >> To:
> >> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >> >> Date: Friday, June 20,
> 2008,
> >> 4:55 PM
> >> >> >> >> OK, does anyone out
> there know
> >> where
> >> >> Alocasia
> >> >> >> zebrina reticulata
> >> >> >> >> originally came from?
> Is it a
> >> proper
> >> >> species or a
> >> >> >> mutant?
> >> >> >> >> Enid
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Natural Selections
> Exotics
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>  <http://www.NSExotics.com>
> >>
> www.NSExotics.com_______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> >> >>
> >> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >>
> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> >> >
> >> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >> >
> >> >>
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> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
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> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
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> >> >>
> _______________________________________________
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> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
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> >> >>
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> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> >>
> >> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >>
> >>
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
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> >> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> > 
> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> >>
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> 
> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >>
> >>
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> _______________________________________________
> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >  <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >
> >>
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aroid-L mailing list
> > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Aroid-L mailing list
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l


      
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