Re: Re: Iris help

Kitty,
I meant free chioce for the minerals and salt only. Not feed. Cattle can and will overeat alfalfa when in a pen. Oddly enough they will not do this if they have access to a pasture with alfalfa grown in a patch nearby. There is a slightly higher amount of salt in a feedlot to help with heat stress and later for the stress of going to market. A steer can lose 50 pounds of weight due to stress if the trip is too rough. My dad had a feedlot for 15 years until small feedlots could not break even. Mainly we raised choice for ourselves and friends. Then we started sending hundreds of head to comercial lots as they could feed them cheaper than we could. We still do this depending on the market and the feedlot takes care of the buyers. Usually restaurants as we have a mixed angus heard and that is what is currently popular for restaurant fare.

I miss those 4-H projects. Aren't they a lot of fun? It is always hard to give up a pet though.
Wendy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kitty & Bruce Loberg 
  To: iris-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:15 AM
  Subject: [iris-talk] Re: Iris help


    I have heard that it is not a good idea to use feedlot manure because the
  steers and heifers are fed salt mixed in their food and minerals instead of
  free choice. When offered free choice they do not eat more than they need.
  > This advice was presented at our spring daylily program by a New York
  hybridizer.
  > Sincerely Wendy, Zone 5
  >   >
      Although I don't run a feedlot, my family does raise steers.   Salt, by
  itself, does not promote an appetite.   If taken in excess, it makes one
  thirsty.  A normal amount of salt replaces salt lost through perspiring,
  which animals do.   Most ranchers and farmers provide salt blocks to their
  large animals because they need salt just like humans do.   The better salt
  blocks contain minerals, it's a way to get all the proper minerals to an
  animal.   You may have heard of things like selenium depleted soil?  This
  sort of thing means an animal is not getting the minerals it needs from the
  pasture.   So mineral supplements is just like humans taking vitamins.  It's
  for better and healthy growth.  It is not to make them eat more.   It's
  possible that a feedlot might provide a balanced feed that contains
  minerals, including salt, as opposed to salt/mineral blocks, but blocks are
  still popular.   No feedlot is going to feed anything in excess or give
  minerals the animal doesn't need... it would be a waste of money, and they
  don't have much of a profit margin.
      When you say "they don't eat more than they need", you need to
  understand that feedlots use proven livestock management to encourage
  optimum growth.  With my sons' 4-H project, we're taught and we practice a
  feeding program so that his steer eats an optimum diet.   And if the steer
  was given "his choice", he wants to eat more grain and sweet alfalfa!   And
  they stop when they're full.  By choice.  (Believe me, I'd not want to mud
  wrestle a 1000 pound animal to "make" him eat... I'd lose!)
       On the other side, I just got done replentishing a large bed and
  replanting iris this week.   I removed all iris, which have grown there over
  10 years.   What did I add?   Steer manure, Dolomite, and mineral
  supplements.   The reason?  To add mineral supplements and compost/nutrients
  back to the depleted soil.   So I can't see a single reason why steer manure
  from a feedlot wouldn't be ok... any trace minerals should be an added bonus
  for your soil!   Steer manure is NOT going to contain higher percentage of
  minerals than you would put into the soil by using a fertilizer or mineral
  supplement.
        Regarding using manure in your beds, I've had great luck with growing
  just about everything.   I've used "hot" manure (hot means first year, not
  fresh manure), and I've used "aged" manure.   Especially with hot manure, it
  is important to mix well with the soil, and keep wet for some time until the
  manure composts naturally.   If you let it get too much on the dry side or
  just lightly moist, the decomposing process, going at full keel, actually
  makes the mixture get very hot in itself.   Just stick your hand in, it will
  be very hot to the touch.   That's why they call it "hot" manure.   If you
  add water (like in water daily or every other day), it'll slow down that
  process and keep the soil cool.    I've planted a wide variety of plants in
  soil supplemented with "hot" manure, and as long as it is kept watered, the
  plants grow like weeds... no.. better than weeds.   Even when you use aged
  manure, you don't want to let the soil get on the dry side, because the
  decomposing, which raises the soil temperature, can be harmful to the plant
  roots.   I understand that some with heavy or clay soils can have problems
  with manure leading to rot in their rhizomes...  one would need to know
  their area to know what works best.
  Kitty Loberg, northern Calif.

  >   I only once used a significant amount of steer manure in an iris bed.
  >   Almost everything rotted out.  It was way too hot from decomposition,
  >   loaded with nasty bacteria, and salty to the point of stressing the
  iris.  Maybe
  >   someone else has had different experiences, but I will never again use
  >   steer manure on my iris.
  >
  >   >I think this would be true of any fresh manure.  You need to have what
  is
  >   >referred to as 'well rotten' manure, and don't put it right on the iris
  but
  >   >make them reach for it


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