Re: Clopralid (Alligare)
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Clopralid (Alligare)
  • From: P* <p*@bellsouth.net>
  • Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 16:34:55 -0400
Black plastic WOULD work if it blocked out sunlight well enough and long 
enough. Plywood could work too and provide a flat surface for a chair 
while you waited. No sun = no food. Death by starvation will kill ANY 
plant. FYI - thinner grades of black plastic let through more light than 
one might think.

I had a 3 year chemical war with a big clump of mugwort. Trimec, 
glyphosate, pee (that was just out of frustration). After a couple of 
month's disappearance I thought I had finally won. Then about one _year_ 
later .... yep. I determined to dig out every scrap of it (emphasis on 
scrap). Was quite surprised by the size, density and woodiness of the 
root system. So more food reserves than first given credit. I built a 
fire and burned it. That was 3 yrs ago, no phoenix, so shovel and flame 
work well if that is an option. As I mentioned to Linda, although it was 
a well established stand when I moved here I have never noticed 
seedlings. Strange but who's complaining.

I websearched on vinegar/acetic acid as a herbicide. Main mechanism is 
chemical burning of a plant's leaves & burned leaves mean less food as 
Colleen alluded. Another variation on what plastic does - promote 
starvation. I have to admit my initial skepticism is somewhat abated and 
11% & 20% acetic acid might have a limited place in my arsenal. Much 
bigger place if I were organic. Regular vinegar at 5% acetic acid - 
well, if a first time thing, you really should read some articles before 
rushing out to buy cases of it or giving your glyphosate away.

Here is a link to an organic gardening enthusiast's article on the 
subject. To be commended as he provides links to quite a few other 
articles. The only ones I've looked at so far are the ARS briefs on 
studies that made the movement go viral.

http://www.thesoilguy.com/SG/Vinegar-AnOrganicHerbicide

Amazingly Canada thistle, a particularly herbicide resistant devil 
(thank God I don't have it), is said have a special vulnerability to 
acetic acid. I speculate the hoariness of the leaves is a contributing 
factor. Ground-ivy also is said to be quite vulnerable.

Here is a Cornell U. article of interest.
http://www.ccerensselaer.org/horticulture-program/Turfgrass-Research/Vinegar-Herbicide.aspx 


I love the names of two products used: One is Nature's Glory Weed and 
Grass Killer.  Nature's Glory and Killer in one name, very Romantic, no? 
Maybe it's me but "herbicide" just sounds more humane than "killer". The 
other is BurnOut Weed and Grass Killer. If Monsanto were to come out 
with an acetic acid product it might be called BurnUp.

Shaub

On 5/31/2013 1:29 PM, J. Griffin Crump wrote:
> Black plastic won't kill mugwort.  I speak from experience, just 
> having finished applying Roundup to mugwort that sprang up after 
> several months of black plastic coverage.  -- Griff
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Colleen
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 10:37 PM
> To: iris@hort.net
> Subject: RE: [iris] Clopralid (Alligare)
>
> If you don't mind multiple applications, vinegar works very well, even on
> very difficult weeks such as White Top.  The roots depend on the above
> ground plant for food, if you spray the plants with vinegar you are
> depriving the roots of their food source.  As I said, it may take a few
> applications, but it really does work.  Where I had areas of only 
> "weeds" I
> just took a jug of vinegar and sloshed it about.  Many plants, thought 
> of as
> weeds, especially grasses, like an alkaline soil and by adding 
> vinegar, the
> soil will become more acidic thereby making the growing environment less
> friendly.
>
> Colleen in NE Calif.
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