Re: HYB: question - genetics of haft marks

Actually, what I was meaning to say, whenever it was that subject came up,
is that I wonder just how the *variegata* heritage is involved in in quite a
range of fall and haft patterns.  It's pretty obvious that the Umbrata is a
combination of effects from *variegata* and some of the Asiatic tetraploids
which may have an ancestral form of *variegata* involved somewhere in their
origin a very long time ago.  The patterns seem to intermingle as if a
continuity existed between the full-fall butterfly-wing patterns, radiating
rays and so on with Umbrata, depending on what you are considering.

In some cases, the veined fall pattern seems to have some relationship to
plicata, as many years ago I had a bud sport show up in CLARA NOYES as a
perfectly normal plicata.  The normal CLARA had the fall radiating vein
pattern.  That one, at least, was a variant or some effect dependent upon
both plicata and something else that dropped out, or else, the butterfly
vein genetic pattern is a dominant blocker to plicata--several possible
explanations can be drummed up for that relationship which could be tested
in diploids rather easily, compared to what would be required in tets.  I
don't know of anything else that suggests the veined patterns and plicata
are the same or a continuity of any kind.

The radiating vein pattern in Blyth irises undoubtedly goes back to Sunset
Snows and the heritage related to it, where the pattern is a fall-overlay,
either of carotenoid or anthocyanin pigments or both.  Apparently the
overlay has something to do with structure rather than pigment controls, as
a pigment control would not affect both kinds of pigments.  Or--it may be
more than one thing, the anthocyanin forms simply the Umbrata from
*variegata,* related diploids with or without yellow, or DOMINION and other
similar early tetraploids which are quite a diverse lot but share in a fall
surface color in anthocyanins, regardless how patterned.

In the seedlings here between selfs and the (Swingtown X Romantic Evening)
seedlings that show Umbrata patterns have varied from half the fall covered
by radiating veins gradually merging to solid blade, fall bordered a band,
ranging from extremely narrow or almost invisible to quite wide--to the
opposite extreme of a solid fall color, no veins at all visible from the
ordinary points of view.  Some seedlings from the crosses showed no Umbrata
or veining effects at all--being solid light blend colors as found in the
standards of those with the patterns.  The Umbrata simply wasn't there.

I've wondered if there is some intersection between the *distal* markings as
in Ghio 88-180-P  descendants, considering the visible type in NOTORIOUS,
and the Umbrata variants, but this is something quite different from
*proximal* fall patterns--ie., haft marks.

Chapman's suggestion makes much sense to me that the patterned haft is an
characteristic independent of plicata, but often occurring in plicatas
simply because it did not get weeded out of plicata family lines .
Outcrosses from plicatas having the character are hafty, those from plicatas
that lack the character are not--as in the good zonals.  That suggests two
separate genetic sets.

If that is true, the hafty pattern could co-exist also with Umbrata fall
overlays, and may be highly visible in early diploid amoenas, judging from
the HIPS photos of various early cv's.

In short, there may be several different and unrelated sets of traits or
allelic series involved in the various lines and forms we see that could be
sorted out if one cared to spend a generation working with thousands of
seedlings.

Neil Mogensen  z 7  Reg 4  western NC mountains

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